Success in real estate doesn’t happen by chance—it’s built on intentional habits and disciplined routines. In this webinar, you’ll discover the practices that top agents rely on to achieve their goals and maintain balance in their lives.
Led by Chris Hanley, one of Australia’s most experienced and respected real estate principals, this session will challenge you to think differently about personal and professional growth. Chris, who runs one of the most successful real estate agencies in the country and is the founder of one of Australia’s major literary events, believes in the power of personal development over traditional leadership training. His proven insights will inspire you to elevate your approach.
In this exclusive webinar, Chris will explore the seven mindful habits that drive success in real estate. Discover actionable insights into:
Exercise: Harnessing the benefits of physical and mental strength
Meditation: Cultivating focus and reducing stress
Work Routines: Establishing effective routines to optimise daily performance
Focus: Prioritising tasks for maximum productivity
Productivity: Achieving balance between work and personal life
Balance: Committing to continuous self-improvement
Improvement: Developing a disciplined mindset to navigate challenges
These habits aren’t just theoretical—they’re tried and tested practices that have helped top real estate agents achieve sustainable success. By integrating these principles into your daily life, you’ll experience significant improvements in your performance and mindset. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to refine your approach, this webinar will provide you with the tools you need to excel in today’s competitive market.
John Cunningham: So welcome everyone to our wellness, webinar. First one for the year actually So and we've got a great lineup of special guests throughout the year. We put it out there to the industry, the influencers to come up with some ideas, and I think we've almost filled the year up already, which is fantastic.
John Cunningham: But we thought we'd start the off with a bang, and nothing like Mr. Chris Hanley did to give everyone an explosive start to the year. I've known Chris a long time, and I consider him to be not only a good friend, but a unique character in the real estate profession.
John Cunningham: I use that word profession, because Chris uses it as well, and we are of the view that there are a lot of professionals in the real estate industry, and if we all behave like professionals, we can turn that whole concept of what we do from being a job to being a profession.
John Cunningham: Not only is Chris the founder of the Rise in issue, but he also has led one of Australia's best real estate businesses and most successful real estate businesses in Byron Bay for the past 30 years. I use the word best because Chris doesn't run the biggest business. He just runs one of the best. And that's a really interesting concept that everyone's going for big, big, big, and there's certain things that create the best businesses. And they're intrinsic things they're hard things to define. If you don't understand what best practice looks like.
John Cunningham: But if you look what good is about, in other words, doing good things, doing good things for people. So Chris loves the concept of good works. And so when you define what a great business looks like. And you really understand what that is, it involves mostly it's about people. It's about the culture that a business has. It's about the leadership a business has. It's about the environment you create for collaboration, for for trust, for sustainability, for support, and, most importantly, respect for each other.
John Cunningham: And when you look at that, the byproducts of that environment in a business world is high productivity and performance and a thriving workplace. And to me, that's what a great business looks like.
John Cunningham: Success leaves clues, and Chris is about to provide us with the 7 mindful habits, and we all know that what we do is about discipline. It's about commitment, but that all starts with creating the best habits. So I love 7 mindful habits. I'm looking forward to this in a big way, but these things can change your life. They can change your life for the better. If you listen, you learn, you apply, and don't forget to take notes, so important. So over you, Chris Hanley, and thank you for kicking off the Wellness Webinars for 2025.
Chris Hanley: Thank you, my good friend, John Cunningham, and thank you in particular for calling me an influencer. I've long wanted someone to state that publicly, and if you'd write it down somewhere and send it to me, I'd hold it in great value.
Chris Hanley: I'm not an expert in in a number of the things I'm going to talk to you about, but I guess not, my superpower, but what I've used over the years is is a power of observation. What John didn't mention. But many of you do know. I've also trained and coached a lot of the different networks and salespeople and leaders in our industry. I've been privileged to been asked to speak to lots of people over the years and in doing that, and in my own business, which is a bit of a laboratory, I guess, to experiment on. I've I've met all these salespeople, but also property managers as well, and and watched very closely. Observed those people who prosper, and those people who struggle, and I've scribbled. I take diary notes and and write in little books, and over the period of time. I've made some observations about the things that these people have in common.
Chris Hanley: John used the word habits, then rituals is another word. I like most of the people who are successful, whether they're writing fiction or playing soccer or painting, or working in in our profession, they have rituals, and we'll talk about some of those today. We all spend 11,000 h roughly at school, and when you sit down and think about that and all that time in the schools that we all go to.
Chris Hanley: You think what or I think. And now I'm looking at a business with, with particularly a lot of young people my business. What aren't we taught at school? And I'll tell you, and and I'll loop this back to rise and wellness in a minute. Some of the things that we're not taught at school. We're not taught how to talk, how to speak. We're not taught how to ask questions. We're not taught. If you like to be curious..
Chris Hanley: We're not taught about health which is why in our country now, wellness, it's such a huge and big growth industry, including wealth, segments of houses now is a very big and important part in the value that people see in the when they buy and sell and transact houses. So the 1st thing that I want to bring up as a ritual a habit for all of you to consider, and it doesn't matter how old you are. But the younger you are on this piece is to to make sure that health becomes not a secondary, or habit, or ritual, but becomes something that goes in your diary every week. My observation is that to build a sustainable career in anything, whether it's in sport and business, you've got to put health in your diary, and someone asked me the other day what I still use a paper diary, but it doesn't matter what are the mandatory things that you put in your diary every week. If you want to be successful in real estate, I can tell you health, which is exercise in whatever shape or form it takes in your own instance, needs to go in your diary along with the 2 other most important things.
Chris Hanley: Hkp, are the 3 letters, Hkp. The 1st is health, as I mentioned. So if it's your Pilates or your Yoga class, or your breathing class, it goes in your diary. It's an appointment. The K. Stands for your kids. Your kids. One of the great resources that you get in real estate is the ability to diarize things in your life, to keep your connection with your kids. So you can attend all of those things, those special things at school. So your health goes in your diary, your kids go in your diary, and the P. Stands for prospecting and as conventional as that one is, they're the 3 things over all of the years that I've observed, and in my own instance, when I was on the tools that I used, I always made sure that each week and each month and each quarter those sets of things went into my diary.
Chris Hanley: The second ritual came to me a bunch of years ago. By accident I was flying to
to Queenstown to speak at a conference, and a guy sat down next to me in a in a Qantas plane. He talked a lot, and and I wasn't really at the start in the mood to listen. But this guy's name was Mark Donaldson, and for those of you know, Mark was Mark, one of Victoria Cross in Afghanistan.
Chris Hanley: Now, once I realized I had a VC. Winner next to me on a 3 h flight to Queenstown. I asked him a lot of questions, but in the end I asked him a question. I've been long wanting to ask a soldier, and I said to him, Mark, how do you do war? How do you survive war? And he looked at me on the airplane. He just said to me, straight away, he said “war breath, you learn war breath or war breathing”.
Chris Hanley: And over all my years of reading about survival of trauma and people who've become really good, whether it's in business or sport, buried in all the chapters in all the books and all the essays. There is. There is direction in there for for breathing, for meditation, for you to always have at your disposal.
Chris Hanley: The ability to use some form of breathing. Some people call it Box Breath Navy Seals. They've all all people who've survived trauma. People who suffer very, very badly from anxiety or mental health challenges all at somewhere on their journey. So the second and very, very important, particularly in real estate. You got a chaotic, chaotic mind, and you've got erratic breathing. Then you got a erratic thinking and you've got to when you do what we do inside of a of a real estate person's head is like a pinball machine.
Chris Hanley: There's a lot going on there. Thousands of thoughts all of the time. They're confused. And one of the things I've noticed with the top performers or the people, the good leaders or the people who are great Bdms is. They're all really good getting in a calm space
Chris Hanley: Again, erratic breathing leads to erratic thinking.And you don't have to go anywhere to learn this. You can come up with your own version of it, and if you go into the real care app, you'll see that breathing in. There is an integral part of managing your health. But here's the thing. If you're able to manage your breathing, you're able to manage your thinking, and in doing that you'll manage your income. You should always be breathing more in than out.
Chris Hanley: And if you're in conversations with people, and the only thing that's moving is your mouth, right? You hyperventilate in it in the weirdest possible way, and you're not concentrating. You listen better when you breathe in deeply and listening is something I don't think we do enough of in our profession.
Chris Hanley: The 3rd and and if you watch Peter Gilchrest’s wonderful webinar last year, he focused on a couple of things, and I want to go back and reiterate one of the things he talked about there. And what Peter talked about was self-awareness. My observation here is that we're all pretty ordinary at this unless we sit down and think about it. Now, how do you get good at self awareness? I'll give you the most brutal way. The most brutal way you can get better at self-awareness is to ask other people who you trust and like. Who you trust, and like to tell you how you actually come across what sort of human being you are, what your values are.
Chris Hanley: If you're a leader and you're sitting in in. Listen to this webinar. And and you think I don't need to do that because I'm the boss that's probably not gonna travel so well with your team. If, on the other hand, you bring people in from time to time and ask about your message. Ask about how it makes them feel. Ask people who you trust, who worked for you for a while, who were brave enough to talk to you, and you will. You will make a great deal of change in your life and your productivity and your contentment. If you can get a handle on this issue of self awareness, you can only get growth. You can only get learning if you're if you're able to master self-awareness.
Chris Hanley: There's a book I'm going to recommend at the end. And just in case I run out of time. I'm going to tell you what it is now, so you might want to take a photo of this book. David Brooks wrote the book, and the book is called How to Know a person. In this book which I've read, and it's the best book I've read about talking and listening to people in connection ever so go and order the book. Give it to your team. In this book are 2 facts that I vividly remember that'll help with this issue of self-awareness. Here's the 1st 1 80% of the time that new people come together and meet. 8 out of 10 times 80% is those people walk away from that communication interaction completely confused with each other, and they don't connect. And as real estate people, we're meeting new people all the time. But we don't have the self awareness a lot of the time to understand. Not only did we not just connect with those people, they had no idea in most of the instances, what we're talking about. That's the 1st fact I want to share.
Chris Hanley: The second one well, well, probably cause you even more distress the second one. And if you're sitting there thinking, yeah, yeah, that's because we don't know the people. There's a piece of research in the book I just shared with you. That'll tell you a different story again. Couples who've been together for years and years and years and years are even worse. So if you're sitting there thinking I've got great self awareness around all the people I know, the ones I've known for years. The staff have worked for me for years. The truth is, that's not the case. You miscommunicate and don't connect with people who've worked with you for years worse than you do, worse than you do with people that you've just met.
Chris Hanley: Now. Peter, also, in his last conversation with all of us, talked about our industry. And he made a point. John touched on it a minute ago. He made a point about the difference between gratitude and entitlement. I don't want to profess to people that I've nailed this, either in my business or my life. But I want to say this to you. Our industry is full of entitlement. Sadly. I I believe that there's another way, a different way to have a real estate journey, and I think that is from the space of gratitude. We're well paid. There's no ceiling in our profession about your income. I think you can be a good human, a really good human, and make a very good living in real estate and have a fantastic life, and I've met so many people who do. But you've got to focus every day on gratitude and all I know about gratitude or the power of gratitude is this but whenever you read about people who've been ill physically, or they've had mental illness challenges, or they've come from some space of catastrophe, and they're struggling. All I know is this, that most of the journey back involves something like starting the day by writing down the good things in your life and in real estate there's a lot of melodrama.
Chris Hanley: God! There's a lot of melodrama in real estate, avoiding it is one of the great rituals and skills, but the best one, I think, to try and start off each day. As I said, I still use a paper diary and little notebooks, and some days, if I'm scratchy or things aren't going so well, I'll sit down and write in those books some of the things that I'm grateful for
Chris Hanley: You've all got in front of you in the next few years the biggest challenge
that we've ever had in our in our history of humans on the planet and the the challenge in front of you. And the most valuable commodity in the world today is is attention and in real estate, just like everywhere else, undivided attention means undivided attention. But sadly, we're all struggling because there's so many people they want our valuable resource. Resource called attention, and they're trying to grab it all the time, and you've got all these pieces of devices and apps and things that are dragging you away. Now I'm going to use a phrase here. I wrote it down. It's called excommunication.
Chris Hanley: In order to be productive, to have a calm core in order to do your work well in order to have a good life you and all of us are going to need, in the months and years ahead to practice this thing called excommunication. Now, what is excommunication? It's to get out of the way of and turn off the devices and have spaces in your life during the day. During the week during the month where your brain can be creative, where it can rest, but where you are not, your eyeballs aren't going a zillion miles an hour, trying to do all these things that aren't productive. And one of the rituals I've learned about people who do really well, and I want to repeat, not just in real estate.
Chris Hanley: One of the rituals I've learned is that the ability to get in a zone to get in a space where they're not distracted and where they're focused. There's all these terms that are in the world now, and I disagree generally with the use of a lot of these terms, and I'll link this back up to the whole issue of productivity and contentment in your life.
Chris Hanley: There's a there's terms like growth, mindset and empathy and phrases like that that you see all over and resilience. These phrases are everywhere in your life and my life, but they're whilst they once had a certain meaning in life. Now those phrases are out there to make our lives harder, often not easier. I'll give you an example - empathy.
Chris Hanley: Most of us struggle to work out what's going on in our life. But empathy tells us we're supposed to put ourselves over in someone else's shoes. That's a very, very hard thing to do, and having empathy for someone else. Sometimes you can have too much empathy which stops you being objective. Resilience is another word that we're belted with, and if you don't have resilience. You're somehow a failure. That's not true, either.
Chris Hanley: Right? Well, resilience means getting back up, if you like. The Finns have got a great word for resilience, but they look at it over the longer term. What happens nowadays in our world? If you fail at something, you therefore don't have resilience. The fins come at it a different way. They look at resilience over a long period of time, and they've got a word for it. It's called sizu.
Chris Hanley: Resilience is long term, so real estate is a long term profession not short. But in your daily activities as an agent what happens? A lot? You lose something. You get flogged, you move a listing or a landlord goes somewhere else. What happens there a whole day or a week is ruined. That's not how it works. You haven't failed anything. You start again. So mindset is one that particularly gets up my nose in the basis. Carol Dweck is a professor from Stanford. I read her book about growth mindset 10 or 15 years ago, and there was a part of it didn't work for me. The part was this, I read the whole book. And basically, it said to all of us, we're supposed to be able to flick some switch and go into this mindset called growth mindset. That was wonderful for us. That's not how life works.
Chris Hanley: So, the research is fantastic. The point I'm making here. Some people are born where they don't have a growth mindset, but that doesn't mean life's going to be a failure. All of these people I've met in my life are burdened with stuff, and they still have a wonderful successful life. And I'll tell you why in a single word, because they act.
Chris Hanley: If you're sitting there in your real estate career in your life, and you're waiting for clarity. Right? You're waiting for something to drop down to give you the way forward. It's not going to happen. You go and act, act, and you'll get clarity after you act. It doesn't mostly come before.
Chris Hanley: And one of the things I I said that I would talk about today in my time was also to make some observations very directly about the topic of improvement or betterment. I've written a couple of pieces about this you can find them, I think Rise is going to share them. They're on Linkedin. You find me there somewhere on Linkedin, and there's some 18 principles of betterment. But I'm going to talk now a little bit about some of these things, and I'm going to start with a couple of general observations about improvement and betterment.
Chris Hanley: The first is real estate is a giant cupboard of excuses. It's not anyone's fault that we practice these, but if I hear any more excuses from real estate people as to why they why, they're not doing what they're supposed to. The bottom line is this, that I could write a book, and that have volumes of excuses. Of all of the reasons salespeople have told me over the years. For example, they didn't get a listing. Now, I'm attached to that reason often, or it's our fees, or our branding, or a myriad of other stuff. The point I want to make you, though, is, if you're prone to excuses, and you don't want to do anything today except one thing. Banish them. Get rid of excuses, stop using them. They don't work, right, like what benefits is an excuse that that's the 1st thing.
Chris Hanley: The second thing I want to say to you about improvement is this go and find people who are successful doesn't matter what the profession is, but don't ask them. What do you do? Tell me what your day looks like today? That's not a real smart question. Because they've been through all of these stages, and they're successful now. So they're just gonna tell you what a perfect day looks like. Now, no, go back and ask them the most important question, what did you do when you are 24 years of age? That made the biggest change, or what did you do at that stage in your career and sit down and listen to what they say and find out the key changes. They made the second thing to do when you're talking to people right is in in instead of. And instead of focusing on these things in their past right, ask them the question about ask them the question about today.
Chris Hanley: If I sat down with, if you're a leader, the Bdm. A property manager, a real estate salesperson, a cadet at the moment, and I did a test with you, a real estate test. I came into your office or I did it over the phone and asked you 5 questions about what you needed to improve or get better. Here's here's the thing. All of you will pass, and some of you will get 5 out of 5 for the questions.
Chris Hanley: So the issue for you. If your career is not where it is, if you're a leader, it's exactly the same question, right. The issue is not what you got to do. The issue over and over is, why aren't you doing it? And if you're brutally honest with yourself? And I mean this brutally honest. And you write down, or you answer, why, you're not doing it. Then that's the place you park and stay. And that's the challenge that you work on. Now I've heard some weird answers in that space, but one of them, I believe, is some people are just scared, right? This. They're scared like they. They're stuck, and they and and they don't know how to go forward. They don't know back.
Chris Hanley: Fear is a thing that I've had a great deal to do with anxiety over the years, and I and I'm not an expert on any of these health topics. But I'll just say this to you. Fear is as much an energy as it is an obstacle. You can channel fear. You have to make space in your life for fear you have to make space for it, and if you're stuck sometimes, sometimes the way to deal with fear is to find someone more fearful and scared than you and go help them. Because fear will stop you acting. And, as I said earlier, acting is the most important way to move forward and to get improvement.
Chris Hanley: I like sport. I study sport. I played some sport, but, more importantly, in my instance, I love it, and I'm particularly interested in tennis. I'll share a fact with you before I talk about tennis. Write down as a percentage. What is a question? First, write down as a percentage, what percentage of of tennis games Roger Federer won in his entire career. I read a piece recently, and it stunned me. I'm a great fan of Federer, not just because he's really good at tennis, because I just love the way he played. Now, the number isn't 80 or 85, or 90 or 78. Roger Federer won 54%, just over half of the entire games of tennis he ever played. But he always seemed to me to have an air about him of a winner. There was something about him and tennis players. They did a study on them a few years ago.
Chris Hanley: They got the top 1% of the tennis players, and they studied to try and work out what made the top 1% of the top 1% of the Federers of the world. And you know what they found. It had nothing whatsoever to do with their skills. So in real estate, the top agents don't have any better listing skills, for example, than the agents who are not the top agents. They don't. But they found in tennis the most important thing in tennis was the ability. Once you'd lost a point to delete the image from your mind on the spot, and move on to the next point without beating yourself up.
Chris Hanley: Now, real estate is the beating yourself up profession in sales for the number of times people beat themselves up when they've missed out. So what I'm trying to say here one of the habits or the rituals you can get is to try and work out a method, a plan for yourself that if you miss out on things for a listing or a sale. Then have a strategy in place to divert your brain, because your brain's going to go down a hole, and once you're in a black hole. What happens? It costs you money, and it puts you off. And then the what if start and the doubts come around into your mind
Chris Hanley: Some of the other things that are very, very important. My observation from the great salespeople one of them is to to focus and to always understand that anger of all of the emotions is the most debilitating and draining, and is the one that will cost you the most. Anger is no good at home. Anger's no good at work. Anger is no good in any way, shape or form, but if you suffer from anger, if anger follows you around, if anger is like a shadow with you, and if you find yourself being angry, you got to go and find a way to meditate. You've got to deal with it through breathing. But you've also got to understand why you're angry, because usually there's a reason, and sometimes it goes back to things that happened in your past. But understand, anger is is corrosive.
Chris Hanley: Another area that that is very, very important when it comes to improvement is patience. I've mentioned earlier and always in real estate. It's the long game, we we all got to play it. Many of the agents I've looked at, and I often quote my partner, Sue Reynolds, who's, without a doubt, the best real estate agent on any measurement in my part of the world, both as a human being and as a practitioner of the art and real estate is an art, and Sue is patient. She's built her business slowly, like Lego blocks in this amazing structure, with all of these wonderful people who work in our team. So be patient. If you have no patient, then get it.
Chris Hanley: Chaos. Real estate, as I mentioned earlier, has lots of chaos and lots of drama. Be okay with chaos. If you're a boss watching this program, understand? You've got staff members who shower in chaos every morning before they come to work to talk to you. It is the thing that's what we do. It's I don't want to compare us to nurses, but if you're an intensive care, nurse, you go to work every day with chaos. We have our version of chaos. It's normal, but get used to working amongst chaos. All the baby boomers on here will remember, get smart, and Max used to have a cone of silence that used to come down that never used to work. But the idea was a good idea. You got to work out in our business how to in effect, work in a cone of silence, so that all the chaos and the noise around you within the real estate profession don't drive you crazy. The last 2 things I want to talk about here are the most important in terms of where do you get your best learning? You get them sadly in the train wrecks, you get them in the losses you get them in the things that that where you get beaten. What happens to a lot of people, I think when they get in this space rather than look for lessons in the train wreck. They run away, they go, and maybe partake of things. They shouldn't, or they just don't sit down and say to myself, okay, okay, what did I learn about this? It doesn't matter which part of the real estate profession that you work in.
Chris Hanley: It's the same. The lessons are in the train wrecks. There's always a lesson there, sometimes, by the way, it doesn't drop down that day or the next day or the next night. Sometimes it it comes and visits you a couple of days later.
Chris Hanley: The last thing that I want to talk about is something that's very much related to health. That isn't, strictly speaking, health, but but I guess it manifests itself with our health, our mental health, as well as our physical health, and that's the issue of self-esteem. Real estate is not a profession to find yourself. It's hard to find yourself in real estate, and for all of you young people out there. I got particular sympathy because there is so many digital distractions, and there is so many things nowadays that with social media that make it hard for you to find yourself. But I want to say this.
Chris Hanley: The self-esteem is a challenge, if if you are finding that you're not doing so well, and if you feel inadequate, if you do then I want to put this up here. I want you maybe to take a little photo of that while it's up on the screen.
Chris Hanley: I'm a believer always in that practice is much better than theory, and, as I mentioned before, whether it's resilience and mindset and empathy. They're all wonderful. But the the thing that trumps all of these theories is action. And if you're struggling with self-esteem, and you're in our profession. I get it. It's hard. But the way to build self-esteem is to do esteemable things. If you want to know what they are, just go and help other people.
Chris Hanley: If it means helping a cadet in your office, go and help somebody if it means doing something in your community, do something in your community. If it means helping one of your sellers who needs something done. If it's an old person that needs to be driven somewhere, it can be something incredibly simple.
Chris Hanley: But if if you can, if self-esteem and confidence is a problem, then start somewhere with action, and the action is to do esteemable things, I want to give you another slide here, and then I'm going to read you a little poem and tell you a story. That's the last my version of the slide. Those of you out there who, trying to to build your real estate career in your life, don't take criticism from people that you wouldn't take advice from as far as I can see. That's not a very wise way to do things.
Chris Hanley: I've got a friend who I walk with regularly, and I got his permission to do this.
Chris Hanley: His mom passed, and her funeral was the other day, and she was a wonderful woman, I think, with 7 kids, and she lived to a ripe old age and when she passed, they found this little poem and this little poem was in her chair. And I want to read it out to you. It's my gift to you from her. I asked my friend whether I can. I want to wish everyone well, and I want to hope that maybe there's some things in here that are of use to you. But just keep putting one foot in front of the other. If you're struggling at the moment, don't give up. Do not give up, because the most important thing is that good things end bad things end. Nothing stays the same forever. I'll just read this out.
Chris Hanley: I'm strong because I am weak. I am beautiful because I know my flaws. I am a lover because I am a fighter. I am fearless because I have been afraid. I am wise because I've been foolish and I can laugh because I have known sadness.
Chris Hanley: Thank you all for listening. I'm very sorry we were late in starting. It was a tech glitch. It's recorded here. Thank you for joining us today, and good luck with your real estate career.
John Cunningham: Thank you so much, Chris. That was absolutely brilliant and massive. Takeaways, full of wisdom, full of practical, can do things that I think everyone is looking for. They just need to go. Where do I start? What are those things? And and my favorite bit, quite honestly, was the last bit that do esteemable things. You know that to me is like, Okay, what do you want to do in your life? How do you actually want to feel good about yourself, because when you feel good about yourself, you're unstoppable, aren't you? You know it's sort of going over the first barrier is to get into that space, that headspace where you actually have that self-esteem in place.
John Cunningham: Now, also, another thing, of course, that you can do in any of these environments is download the Realcare app. Now, the Realcare app, you can get the details on the riseinitiative.org website. It's there to help you. It's there to help guide you. It's 1 of those things where sometimes in life you need simple things to fall back on. And the Realcare app that Chris developed. And it's now in its second iteration, has got to a place now where so simple. And this is the key simplicity, not complexity, is what we're looking for in these things. It just helps you have a guide through your life on so many different things in terms of your health and your mental health.
John Cunningham: The other thing I want to mention, too, before we go, is the Rise Leadership Conference, which is called Leadership in Action. And we've gone through a number of iterations of this program over the last few years where we're now, last year's was called Advance. We're now into action. So if you want to come along and really create help, create for yourself a sustainable thriving business environment where people flourish. Please consider the Rise leadership session, which is on 10th and 11th of April booking through the website, riseinitiative.org. It is unlike any other conference on the planet. It's quite incredible what can be achieved out of the results of these things, because this is about looking after your people and looking after your business. As a result of that, as I said, earlier productivity and performance happens. So make sure you look at that up and thanks everyone for joining us today, and particularly thanks Chris for a fantastic presentation.
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